ultimafandomcom-20200223-history
Forum:Categories
As you can see I've been messing around with categories and sub-categories. By having subcategories we can tie categories together. This is important for organization. Especially for characters in more than one game. Think about Shamino; in Ultima IV he shows up in Skara Brae but in Ultima VII he shows up in Britain. If we gave him the Categories 'Ultima IV', 'Skara Brae', 'Ultima VII' and 'Britain' we can't tell from that which location ties to which game. But if we have 'Skara Brae in Ultima IV' and 'Britain in Ultima VII' then we can. Since we can now tell which is linked to which we can now do automatically updating lists like I've made here; Britain#Ultima_IV. But really that isn't the only benefit. The 'NPCs' category is getting large and it is only going to get larger. By breaking it down into game subcategories it is much more useful. Fenyx4 11:38, 11 August 2009 (UTC) :Better tell me what EXACTLY you plan to do. I put lots of strength into this project (~80% of the content is from me!) so I would like to hear from you how and what exactly you plan to do. :I've seen you adding the Ultima IV NPCs to Britain. If you do this for the others of Ultima IV, fine. But the lists for the other games on the city and town pages are already complete. So if it isn't broken, don't touch it. Especially since they are used to determine which NPCs still have to get articles. :Re-organising the NPC section so that it is broken down by game sounds good enough, as long as you do it the easy way and just replace the "NPCs" category for these NPCs with "NPCs of Ultima...". That way it won't break down the site formatting. Also, the companions are in an extra category already. --Tribun 11:55, 11 August 2009 (UTC) ::I want to add sub-categories for each game to the NPCs Category: "NPCs of ..." ::Everything currently in "NPCs" would be dispersed to the relevant "NPCs of ..." category. So Nelson would end up in the categories "NPCs of Ultima VII", "NPCs of Ultima Underworld II" and "Age of Armageddon" ::I also want to add new categories for locations with sub-categories for each game. For example "Britain" with the subcategory "Britain in ..." ::So, all the Ultima IV characters and shops in Britain I just added would, in addition to other categories, get the category "Britain in Ultima IV". Nelson would then end up with the categories "NPCs of Ultima VII", "NPCs of Ultima Underworld II", "Age of Armageddon", "Moonglow in Ultima VII" and "Castle Britannia in Ultima Underworld II" ::I did not plan on changing any list already there, as you said, they are useful to determine which NPCs still need articles. ::I wasn't planning on removing any of the Companions from the "The Companions of the Avatar" category. But what do you think about adding the relevant "NPCs of ..." and locations to them as well? ::-- Fenyx4 15:02, 11 August 2009 (UTC) The NPCs of Ultima... subsections for the NPC category are good. However, you make it again too complicated by also dividing up by place and age. The Age is unneccassary because it's clear from the game name itself. As for dividing it by place... Sorry, but that really implies that people can't read the articles themselves. Also, such lists already are in the locations. Also it would make things again unneccassary complicated. I'm impressed by your drive, but you always have to sit back once in while and think about if that really makes things any easier, or just more confusing. And to be frank, some of your ideas, while great in theory, just make it too compicated.--Tribun 15:14, 11 August 2009 (UTC) :I'll get started on the "NPCs of Ultima..." stuff then. :I don't like the Age stuff either. I was just leaving it in there since it is already there. Should we remove Category:Age_of_Armageddon, Category:Age_of_Enlightenment and Category:Age_of_Darkness then? :It isn't about people being unable to read the article it's about organizing and cross referencing the data. :But we could argue back and forth about this all day and at the end of it I think I'll still be saying I'm making things simplier and you'll be saying the opposite. I'll drop for now though. :Even though I won't be subdividing the places now do you have any problem with me adding the places? I noticed that you removed Category:Britain from Pepper. :And you never responded to my query about the Companions. --Fenyx4 22:07, 11 August 2009 (UTC) The new NPC section looks good. Great work. It can stay this way. Simply ignore the Age-categories. Someone once created them and they don't clutter anything. Erasing them now would only create lots of articles with dead-end categories. I noticed that the Companions actually do need to be in the lists as well, so I did that myself. They of course still have their own category.--Tribun 12:32, 12 August 2009 (UTC) Since the categories Category:Age_of_Armageddon, Category:Age_of_Enlightenment and Category:Age_of_Darkness are not used any more, might it be a good idea to have Fenyxbot delete this category from every article that is already labelled 'Ultima X'? That would eliminate a LOT of the examples of this unwanted category, and would help us spot articles that still need to be fixed. (Dungy 01:13, March 28, 2010 (UTC)) :User:FenyxBot could definitely remove the "Age" Categories from everything that already has one of the subcategories of Category:Games. And I agree this would leave the "Age" Categories as a list of ones that need fixing. It'll be a bit before I can get to this which'll give time for others to weigh in on the discussion. -- Fenyx4 02:14, March 29, 2010 (UTC) : It needs to be cleaned up a bit I think, and remove the redundent categories. Heck, Gwenno is currently on 15 different categories! ::Agreed! For Gwenno the Ages should be removed. And the Ultima * should be removed since the NPCs of Ultima * clearly implies that. -- Fenyx4 02:52, March 29, 2010 (UTC) :::FenyxBot has finished. :) -- Fenyx4 18:28, March 29, 2010 (UTC) : Looks great! I see we're down to about 40 or so articles that need proper labelling. I fixed a bunch too. I guess we can fix those, and then delete those three categories. Because you cleaned up all the categories, it made it easier for me to find improperly labelled items. Found some NPCs that were not listed as such, and I fixed it all up. OK, I finished modifying every page to categories for the different ages. Those pages now need to be deleted. The next thing we need to do is modify the side bar so it contains links to relevant pages and not dead links. We also need to get rid of the 'Recent blog posts' option because there are no blog posts. Do we want to change the Community link so it goes straight to the forums? I think that would be less confusing. What should the new categories be? Maybe a link to every Ultima game? I'm not sure what would be best. Maybe links to different important categories? I'm not sure what is best. (Dungy 23:18, March 31, 2010 (UTC)) ::So, I tried messing with the sidebar a bit. The place where the two Age menu items are now are supposed to have the two categories with the most articles in them. But some messed up cache is causing those two to stick around even though they are empty now. But even if it was working I don't think I'd like it as it would probably end up with "NPCs of Ultima VII" and "Ultima VII". ::I totally agree that the blog thing should go. I also think that 'New Pictures' and 'Random Page' should go too. Pictures because I don't find it terribly useful and 'Random Page' because there is another random page link right at the bottom of the sidebar. ::I feel that the Community link should stay the same although the Community Portal is in desperate need of some updates it is still an important page. ::If you can make heads or tails out of User:Fenyx4/Monaco-sidebar then you can sort of see what I am thinking. (I reformatted it on the Discussion with wiki formatting to maybe make more sense.) The keys points is the 'Ultima' tree which is for real life tangible type stuff; Games, maps, trinkets, etc and the 'Ultima universe' tree which is for in-game type stuff; NPCs, Geography and Bestiary. I feel this does a pretty good job directing people so some of our richest content. My only problem is with how sparse it leaves the top of the tree. It only has 'Editable Codex', 'Ultima', 'Ultima Universe', 'Most visited' and 'Community' now. ::You can edit your own to match mine if you want to try it out and improve upon it. This page talks about how you edit it. Aftwerwards you can just blank the page to return to the default sidebar. ::-- Fenyx4 04:47, April 1, 2010 (UTC) ::: Wow, um, sorry about my wall of text. -- Fenyx4 04:52, April 1, 2010 (UTC) : Agreed to some extent. "New Pictures" needs to go. I kind of like the large "Random page" link. Maybe get rid of the smaller one instead. I find myself using it all the time, and it's good for a new user just to explore around at random. If you feel it's too sparse, maybe leave one of those categories unexpanded. Maybe there's room to leave Ultima Universe a little larger, or maybe leave all the core Ultima game unexpanded on the left side. Also, if you want to beef it up more, maybe fan works could have its own section. It's kind of important even if we haven't done enough work on it yet. (DUNGY) ::Made a few changes and then noticed that the cache had finally flushed so 'NPCs of Ultima VII' and 'Ultima VII Portraits' were now on the sidebar. Didn't want those hanging out so I put the changes on the site. ::'Random Page' is back. Removed 'Ultima universe' and moved it's children up. Split the games into ages for better organization. -- Fenyx4 13:42, April 1, 2010 (UTC) :: :I've recently started adding lore quotes to all the Britannian spells, and I've also been adding as a category which Ultima they come from. I've been thinking that his is perhaps not the best choice actually, since it's going to give spells like 'cure' a ton of different categories, and might just end up cluttering everything. What do you folks think? Should we just remove all categorization from Britannian spells or should we categorize all of them?(Dungy 22:45, May 16, 2010 (UTC)) I say just leave them in the spell category. Magic is a topic in itself, so I think it's best that way and saves us cluttering of the categories of the games.--Tribun 00:02, May 17, 2010 (UTC) : I could see us doing something similar to the NPCs. "Spells of Ultima V", etc. Keeps it from cluttering the game categories but gives us the organization we need. -- Fenyx4 21:56, May 18, 2010 (UTC)